Work has enabled you to travel the world. Which cities’ bar scene do you admire?
A couple of places spring to mind. I’ll briefly mention two – Taipei and Tokyo. Both cities have a great bar community and atmosphere. And also deliver something really unique. Sharing is caring – so today inspirational examples are easily and instantly shared online and through social networks, which means a great bar idea soon becomes global. While examples can be learnt from, local scenes themselves retain an air of uniqueness – especially Tokyo, which is pretty well insulated from Western culture. They also have classic cocktails with a local spin – a different and unique mix. While it may be an acquired taste, it certainly is something completely different and original.
Surprisingly, I found Taipei the more interesting. Any reasons why?
Because it’s a fairly affordable city. For example, running your own bar someplace like London is going to set you back £500,000. And let’s face it, most young guys don’t have that kinda dough lying around. So Taipei is also interesting in that new small bars, cafes, and businesses are opening up because you don’t need a huge capital outlay straight off the bat.
Any bucket list travel destinations?
I’ve been lucky enough to have already seen more of the world than most others, but huge gaps remain on my travel map. For example, I’ve never been to Africa, or Central Asia…countries such as Kazakhstan and Tajikistan. So I’ve still got plenty to discover – I like when cocktail culture is young and stylish.
Your life was once full of guests, seminars, product launches, bar shows… that must take so much energy and have a toll on your personal life. How did you handle it?
Too right – it really took an unbelievable amount of energy. Different time zones, lack of quality food, and everywhere sampling cocktails. But I was younger and more flexible. You know, when a person’s 25 years old with the world at their feet…three hours’ sleep a day is just fine. Now I’m ten years older, and if I continued living like I was then after three or four days I’d collapse and wake up in ER. So knowing your limits is a big help. And recognizing that not everyone has that awareness kept my head above water. I felt a responsibility: heaps of guys would just love to be in my place, so I felt I just couldn’t mess up.
Where do you lay your hat and call home?
Even in adulthood we follow what we experienced in childhood. So for example, by the time I was thirteen years old or so I had changed school and moved home about eight times. I guess we moved around a lot…always starting again from scratch – new school, new friends, new city… So I guess for me it’s pretty natural to be constantly on the move, a rolling stone, because I grew up with it. I don’t feel the need to drop anchor anywhere. And I can adapt faster to new places, new tastes, and new life situations. To answer your question…I can’t quite say where home is, but I do enjoy life by the sea and warmer weather. After all, home is this world – and we all live on this planet.
You’re currently living in London?
Yes. But next week I return to Barcelona.
The Amazon rainforest has a special appeal for you…
Between trash shows like Love Island and Big Brother, Italian television also broadcast documentaries every afternoon when I was a kid. So after school, I’d drop my bag and run to the TV…and I guess some programs about the Amazon really caught my eye. Those beautiful shots of nature, hunting with bows, drinking from leaves…have stayed with me ever since. Eight years ago I met Peruvian chef Pedro Miguel Schiaffin at a Zacapa rum event in Mexico City, and we spoke about visiting the Amazon. Later I brought it up with bartender Luis Flores. And we backed up our words with action…I packed my bags and headed off with Alex Kratan, Monica Berg and my ex-wife Melissa for an Amazon rainforest expedition.
Why the Amazon?
Simply out of curiosity, I like to discover new things. Some folks’ dream vacation is being a couch potato watching TV, others want to visit family…well, I was set on the Amazon rainforest. And each to their own of course, everyone can spend their holiday as they like. So we got to the Peruvian region of Loreto, Iquitos – the gateway city to the jungle. I saw the Amazon river, so wide you can’t see the other bank, villages without electricity, toilets, running water…Places where you eat whatever grows or moves and drink rainwater. And it was great.
Were you apprehensive at all?
It was thrilling, but such a journey also has inherent risks that are best not dwelled on. A poisonous snake could nip you at any time, mosquitoes laugh at 100%-effective repellant as they eat you alive…and you just have to grin and bear it. It was quite scary when my canoe overturned in a strong current, with life-saving instructions being yelled in an indecipherable language. But that’s also exactly what’s so attractive about such trips. Being outside your comfort zone. You also realize that this is how people once lived in our country – so it’s actually like returning to our own roots too. When I got home, I looked at life differently. Reevaluating what we do and whether it really makes us happier.
Been back to the Amazon since?
I flew to Peru once more – and Colombia, where I lived in the jungle for two weeks… and when I say jungle, I mean deep-deep jungle. I was in Venezuela for the fourth time, but the trip was a little different because the Amazon part was very organized.
Which fruit or product from that region caught your eye?
The taste of everything is distinctive and unique. The pineapples you can buy in Europe taste very differently after a long journey than those cut straight from a tree. For example cupuaçu fruit has a unique taste, similar to cocoa, although you don’t make chocolate from it.
Did you aim to discover new tastes to use?
I travelled with an open mind – I was completely receptive to new experiences, sights and tastes. My only idea of what lay ahead had come from childhood documentaries. Naturally when you experience and taste something new, you are inspired to spread the good news. Straight after the visit, two things were clear: we wanted to organize a symposium aimed at raising funds to save the forest. The Amazon is very green, but also very threatened. And we also had the idea to use the new flavors for a new liqueur: Muyu. We also knew that we didn’t want its production to involve flying fruit across the world and a huge carbon footprint.
Canaïma gin was also inspired en route to the Amazon. What’s the story?
Well for sure it’s not a product I could have created myself. I partnered the family behind Diplomático rum, talented, successful, and busy professionals who weren’t really looking for another product. But we all love the Amazon, so we set some time aside for Canaïma. Locals are involved throughout the project – fruit picking, production, marketing… And 10% of sales go towards saving the Amazon. I repeat – of sales, not profit. Because it is misleading when someone promises part of a new product’s profit, since a new product may only make a profit in four or five years if you’re lucky. So maybe this project is bit of a financial blackhole…but after paying your rent and developing your skills, it’s better to spend the remainder on something that allows you to sleep peacefully and with a content soul.
And the gin is popular?
The drink is exceptional – although maybe an acquired taste. For me it’s important that its production helps 120 Venezuelan families in the Amazon, and that this project has resulted in 2,000 trees planted in Colombia.
What was the timeline – from idea to launch?
About two years. Production still has teething problems. For example, you want 110 pounds (50 kilograms) of some fruit for mixing, but the guy returns with half that and says the branches are empty. So there can be last-minute changes. But that’s life, quality through flexibility.
And that about Amazonians?
I was fascinated by how a different culture defines attitudes, religion…and I was intrigued by our different approach to perceived dangers. In Europe, parents tell kids not to play near the street and keep a watchful eye out for them all the while. In the Amazon, even one-year-olds play on busy streets with stray dogs wandering around. Kids happily jump into wild rivers, just like European kids into a swimming pool with a life-guard. But the rivers have snakes and strong current and all sorts, so once in a while a kid doesn’t make it…the people accept this, taking danger as an inherent part of the circle of life. A European arrives with a suitcase full of pills and repellents, but over time they run out or are discarded…and a different degree of risk becomes acceptable.
How does your creative process work?
I view creativity like physical conditioning. The more you train, the more you can lift. The mind responds in a similar way. You also need an overview of what’s been done…you don’t want to waste energy reinventing the wheel. And you need perspective – accepting that you can’t please everyone every time.
Your Artesian time is quite well known. Can you pick the craziest thing from that period?
Well Artesian was a crazy project, period. And I don’t mean that every cocktail had fireworks. Bars in five-star hotels tend to be very elegant, but we went rouge and threw away the rulebook. And it was accepted because it worked – the bar provided a surprising yet very personal experience.
Anything Artesian couldn’t do?
We had planned a cocktail…that would fly. But you know, we ran into physics…the limits of available space. What works in a lab, maybe doesn’t takeoff in a bar. Other ideas didn’t come to fruition, but they’re still kicking around. We keep them on the back burner.
Still in contact with Alex Kratena?
Sure, and not just because we work on Muyu. We’re in regular touch, in fact I’m seeing him soon. He also had to respond to the corona situation by redesigning his new bar Tayēr + Elementary.
How would you evaluate your time at Artesian?
This period was largely perceived as a riotous rollercoaster full of jokes, traveling and drinking. But it also had a downside – we only slept three hours a day, and always ate too late if at all. We missed our homes and partners. I saw grown men and women in tears after one shift at Artesian. It wasn’t for everyone, the sacrifices were high.
And your typical day at that time?
Midday alarm, shower, lunch. Two or three o’clock I got to the bar, chewed the fat, then the bar opened from four in the afternoon until five in the morning. I’d promise to attend some bar show in Prague or Athens or wherever, so I jumped right on the plane hoping to get some sleep en-route. I’d complete the event, check out some bars, catch the red-eye, and the next day it all started again… Most could handle this pace for maybe a week, we somehow pulled it off for five years. And let me emphasize – without drugs. Sure drank a whole lot, but drug-free.
Would you do it again?
Only if I drink a little less, it was too much. I’m by no means old, but I see myself doing something else and delegating stuff to up-and-coming talent. I would be happy to advise. And you can only lead such a hedonistic life if you’re single or with a very tolerant partner who accepts 16-hour work days. But that lifestyle is not normal – for anyone. It also damaged my health. I have spinal problems that will never be completely cured.
So taking stock, was it worth it?
Probably yes. But I was lucky. Such opportunities are once in a lifetime. The first award for world’s best bar was incredible. But four consecutive times?! Wow, speechless. It was an emotional rollercoaster but somehow I mentally got through, I don’t think I’d change a thing.
Ok, now let’s move on to here and now. What’s your strategy: solo or with investor?
Lots of people have great ideas but no money, while others have heaps of money but no ideas, so what to do? By bringing these two worlds together, successful projects can take shape. But if you’re an idea-maker, you need to be prudent. Only share your game-changer with a potential investor rather than 5000 people on Instagram. Because if you’re not careful, your idea will become someone else’s. Sure, ideas can be shared to help others out, but be street-wise: protect yourself. So when you’re planning some commercial activity, be smart. I have started both joint and separate projects.
We have mentioned Muyu liquor and Canaïma gin. What about your bar?
Right now only my money is sitting there. Specifically EUR 400,000 (around half a million dollars). But Sips bar in Barcelona is yet to produce a cent – doors remain closed due to coronavirus measures . It was a big risk – I could comfortably live on that money for several years and wouldn’t have to work unless something caught my eye. So I’m glad to have other stuff up and running. Corona has highlighted the peril of putting all your eggs in one basket.
Why Barcelona?
It’s by the sea. And it’s a very intimate people-centric city – not a huge city like London where you can feel lost. Cocktail culture – although so far undeveloped – is catching on. It has a distinctive identity.
What is the bar’s concept?
The full name is Sips Drinkery House. The idea’s beauty is its simplicity: a range of classics, craft beers, local wines, and signature drinks. While the bar’s main and strongest ingredient will be the human dimension. It’s a bar…without a bar…it’s open plan with free-flowing spaces around people. Open like a lounge, allowing free contact between people. I had two dream bar concepts. In one – an elegant old-world bar counter, while in the other – no bar at all. And since I don’t have the money for two projects, I went for the second.
How does a bar-less bar work?
We have a two-person workstation that fits snuggly into the space. The bar has tables, chairs, sofas…and standing space too.
Why are you flying to Barcelona when the bar’s still closed?
I’m going to shoot 12 hours of courses aimed at bartenders. It won’t be about mixing Mojito or Martini, you’ll be able to watch samples free on YouTube. I want to record all the techniques and ideas I have learned over the years. I’m investing EUR 20,000 so it’ll be professionally shot – by an eight-strong crew and all. The plan is to offer the whole package for a fee. About 2000 people attended my masterclasses a year, and were willing to pay per hour to see me from a distance in a busy place. So I thought they might appreciate a well-filmed 12-hour course. It will take a technical approach – not for specific cocktails – but rather to get a grasp of the underlying system to give participants the tools they need to make what they want.
And what about the Flavor Blaster bar tool? How’s it going?
It was just a toy to help bartenders serve a bit differently. Demand was actually greater than supply. Flavor Blaster has become a very important tool for many bartenders because it’s given them fizzy cocktails and financial stability. People thank me…saying they only sell one cocktail, but Flavor Blaster has made it a high-revenue hit. Well it’s really great and surprising to help people in this way to reach their business goals.
What’s your life goal?
The pandemic helped me appreciate that to have a job like mine is a privilege. And that our guests are also privileged because they can afford to have a cocktail in a world where people are dying for lack of clean drinking water. Our work is beautiful. But as we have seen, the world does not stop turning if cocktails aren’t served. That’s why I’d like to get involved in future projects that are close to my profession – serving drinks – but that also help give more people access to clean drinking water.
And to wrap up – what’s your plan tomorrow?
Well tomorrow’s Monday…which means tax deadline day. So a whole heap of paperwork awaits. And I’m also moving…so furniture to heave and shift. I’d rather be opening Sips of course…
